Author Topic: 12ga,10ga,8ga,4ga FH; 585HE/700HE; Big Bores---  (Read 31361 times)

Offline hubel585

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Re: 12ga,10ga,8ga,4ga FH; 585HE/700HE; Big Bores---
« Reply #80 on: October 28, 2015, 02:13:32 PM »
We got guys wildcatting our 585HE case,




Here is picture of  that 375 Warlord next to our 585 case he made it from.
He is going to make couple later  necked down to 416, and 458.
There is another guy working on doing one necked down to 357 wildcat.



Here is a picture of our poster  Biebs on AR,  585 HE,  in a MPI stock.
He used a big Enfield action, with a  fancy jeweled bolt.



We found couple other big actions for our 585, that can even feed really
long overall length loaded cases,  like 4.5" long or more, if you are
using long pointed bullets for real long range target and hunting work.
One is Lawton 8000 Cheytac action, and the other is  Stiller Cheytac actions
made similar, just a  newer version. Both actions come in  1.45" diameter
 and a 1.60" diameter receivers. 

And Vestals Gunsmithing in Virginia does great work, decent prices, has 
these actions and will build you fancy 585 HEs. .. He has, working with
another guys mag box setup, setup an extra long, good working, single
stack, center feed, magazine..He has one of  our 585 HE reamers on hand,
we have barrels....Ed



Offline hubel585

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Re: 12ga,10ga,8ga,4ga FH; 585HE/700HE; Big Bores---
« Reply #81 on: November 09, 2015, 05:42:48 PM »
Here we kill two birds with one stone so to speak,

Best case sizer is the MEC Collet Super Sizer and it can double
as a case holder when we roll crimp. Much better hold than
the ones made to hold cases for crimping, that cost a lot.
Save cost of a holder, plus have best sizer around



Here is couple different setups our guys checking for our 585HE
in a long, Lawton Cheytac action. First  laminated  thumbhole stock.
Second in a Hogue Compstock. The action can mount a scope rail
like shown on the table in 1st picture or a receiver sight in 2nd picture.
The scope rail is a piccatiny type.





The stocks used were wide ones for REM long actions, just add recoil
block ahead of recoil inleting  for the longer action, drill new screw hole
Open the stock forward to original bolt hole for longer cases and mag.

About Enfields for our case, one of my favorites, Some don't like the
sporterizing, welding  bottom metal straight. Many think straightening
is a huge job needing special jigs. Easier just use one being added on for a jig
with a bolt, to weld on the straight extension, Do top weld, then cut old
extension that is under off with a thin cutting wheel, then weld bottom.
When we bolt the short piece on the one we are straightening, we grind
the short slant off so the added piece lays on there flat.
The one you cut off can be used as the top extension for the next one!!!
Just keep on building...Ed



Offline hubel585

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Re: 12ga,10ga,8ga,4ga FH; 585HE/700HE; Big Bores---
« Reply #82 on: December 10, 2015, 05:11:54 AM »
 Here is a fancy stocked 24ga FH built on a NEF, built by
a guy in Canada.  Its straight back,  high comb
stock, handles recoil great.Neat looking work... Ed




About our 2.17"  585 BB  case for lever guns, pistols, etc,.
It is made from our 585 case cut back to 2.17" long.
With loaded length of about 2.8" work in lever guns, etc.
Work in 71s, later 1886s, Henry steel frames made for 45-70.
One guy is putting one in single shot action set up with
Contender style pistol grip for testing in long rifle barrel,
to simulate pistol  recoil..Be very brisk recoil in a case
that holds 110 gr powder under a light Minie bullet.
Maybe work in a Rossi Judge with heavy barrel.
Or rolling block rifles and  pistols...Gonna try one  in 1887.
Got first one in one of our guys Greener GP for testing..

In some ways big bore shotguns and rifles are sexy.
By looking at the shape of the fire and smoke cloud....
Thanks for picture, to the great NitroExpress Forums site.




Here is picture of another neat sporterizing deal for Enfields.
On those without rear bridge pocket welded up, we just mill down
and shape it so  debth of the pocket matches bottom section of
weaver rail and screw or epoxy it in. Shape to drive in hole tight.
Can use as a rear scope ring mount or mount for peep sight
like a compact UTG sight...Ed



Offline hubel585

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Re: 12ga,10ga,8ga,4ga FH; 585HE/700HE; Big Bores---
« Reply #83 on: January 24, 2016, 03:59:56 PM »
A poster reading our threads said '' I'm slowly becoming a recoilapheliac''..
That is neat term , and very glad  that folks are catching the big bore fever.

Here is a simple, yet neat peep sight we can use on the rear sporterized
bridges of Enfields, works on other rear bridges also.Including shotguns.
 I like peep sights the best for most shooting. They also come with flat
bottoms also for bridges and receivers that are flat on top.



Another picture of the 585 HE one of our guys  put in the MPI stock..



Here is another pic of our guys 24ga FH in the NEF




On straight sided cases  like our 585 HE the die set has a mouth expander
die to make it easy to insert bullets. The die flares the mouth, but I always
felt that doing what is really a relative relatively sharp flare, and then the slight
roll crimping the same area of the case into a groove on the
bullet or slug, shortens case life.

So I just use expander plug out of the die, by hand, using just the bottom of
of the expander plug and just push it in a little, wobble it around a small
amount, bullet goes in ok, case mouths last longer, good for dozens of loads,
with moderate hunting and target loads.Only takes a few seconds and less
work that has to be done in the press ... Ed




Offline hubel585

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Re: 12ga,10ga,8ga,4ga FH; 585HE/700HE; Big Bores---
« Reply #84 on: February 12, 2016, 10:03:03 PM »
Here is picture of a hard plastic molded shotgun cases, holding
a slug, without crimping, a company is experimenting with.
These with light brass slugs supposed to do over 2000 fps.




Here is  video by Corlanes Sporting,  Dawson Creek, BC, CAN.
Known as  Rocky Mtn Rifle.  Video is on Youtube of  testing our
585 HE in a barreled action, they are building for a guy. They are
shooting it into their big bullet trap with test load..

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1vzQjRGfT1A

 

Picture of Rossi singleshot with 585 barrel mono-blocked  into it,
chambered for our 585 BB  2.17" case, for testing in a light rifle
with just pistol grip to simulate the case in pistols. Others going to
put case in leverguns,  autoloaders. We got lots  of cases. Ed



Offline hubel585

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Re: 12ga,10ga,8ga,4ga FH; 585HE/700HE; Big Bores---
« Reply #85 on: March 17, 2016, 06:35:10 PM »
Here is picture of a great old time 8bore double.
I like those old outside hammer, big bore guns.



The style of most break actions singles aren't the greatest,  that we
we used for 12ga FH, 10ga FH, other caliber barrels we mono-blocked
in them like .585" bore for 585HE  and  24ga FH.. One that is close
that we have, is the Magtech.

 Well the guys have  found one that is super strong lockup and  looks
real nice. And has the good quality look. It comes 12ga light shot barrel,
soon  be monoblocked to rifled 24ga FH,  the little brother of the 585HE.

Told company if they did them NEFUltra style, rifled, heavy 12ga slug barrel,
for shotgun caliber only hunters, they couldn't make them fast enough.




Here is picture of 585HE, In an Enfield that  Bret and Darrel in Minn
set up with great camo finish, with nice brake job. It is in a Hogue, recoil
reducing, rubber coated, Compstock.Great job they did.. Ed



Here is picture from the rear of the Enfield we mounted the short Weaver
rail piece on. It is mounted in the sight pocket that the actions have;
Can hold scope ring or a rear peep sight like UTG makes.. Ed



« Last Edit: March 17, 2016, 06:37:05 PM by hubel585 »

Offline hubel585

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Re: 12ga,10ga,8ga,4ga FH; 585HE/700HE; Big Bores---
« Reply #86 on: April 14, 2016, 02:41:07 AM »
We will have arrived when we have this big bore in our back yard,
Kind of a neat suppressor,




Here is folder shotgun, the  guys set up as 24ga FH.
Shoots nice, looks nice, it a more expensive break action,
compared to many others.




Here is another  view of what we feel is a nearly perfect
break action. Guy is making a strong 24ga FH with it.




Here is picture of a  585HE  MRC PH a guy set up..








Offline hubel585

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Re: 12ga,10ga,8ga,4ga FH; 585HE/700HE; Big Bores---
« Reply #87 on: May 11, 2016, 10:28:26 PM »
Here is a Midland break action a guy is doing in 24ga FH.



Here is old  catalog picture of different stuff used in old days
for shotgun loads. Some would be hairy in brass cases



Here is picture of a MN  a guy is  doing 585HE in..
It is singleshot. Redid  bolt handle, mounted it on the bolt
further back, so the port could be lengthened  for our long case.
Also puts handle back where it is easier to grab.
Needs, more shaping,  polishing, blueing, scope rail added.





Offline hubel585

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Re: 12ga,10ga,8ga,4ga FH; 585HE/700HE; Big Bores---
« Reply #88 on: June 18, 2016, 08:40:01 PM »
There are guys on Castboolits forum experimenting with
locking on plastic bases securely on slugs.
Making their own front heavy ones for smoothbores.

Here is picture of our 585BB case next to long 585HE.




Here  is another view of  the great camo job on the
585HE Enfield,  a top view.  Ed



Offline hubel585

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Re: 12ga,10ga,8ga,4ga FH; 585HE/700HE; Big Bores---
« Reply #89 on: July 23, 2016, 10:12:08 PM »
Here is a helix driver seal we made by cutting base from helix driver

wadcup, good for fullbore roundballs that are too big to go in cup.

Best one to cut off is shortest `12ga  one BPI has.


 



Here is picture of a 585HE made on a Stiller bolt action for guy in Canada.

It was made for the poster Spooksar on Africa Hunting and Accuratereloading,

by Corlanes/Rocky Mountain rifles, in Dawson Creek BC Canada, with a

Stiller action, Timney trigger. the stock is a blue/grey laminate. He imported

the barrel, cases, dies, etc.. from us,  through Prophet River in Lloydminster AB.


 



That action similar to  Lawton we had and neighbor got,  that won the King Of The

2 Mile shoot at Whittington,  with the 375 Lethal cartridge the neighbor made,

 from our 585 brass. Made it full length case,.. It is big one on the right.

He made an 18 lb gun with McMillan target stock, a huge scope, tripod..

Nice thing is we don't need BMG action.ED




Offline hubel585

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Re: 12ga,10ga,8ga,4ga FH; 585HE/700HE; Big Bores---
« Reply #90 on: August 08, 2016, 07:58:39 AM »
Fellow big bore nut, Nathan Vale in AUS, has worked with

Bertram and got the  run of  full length  12ga From Hell cases done.

 Drawn 12ga long cases as strong as BMG brass with unbreakable rims.

Any wanting to get some, contact Bertram at the email -----   

 b.bertram1@bigpond.com    ......





Some more on wildcat 375 Lethal Cartridge and Mitchell Fitzpatrick's win.......

 .375 Lethal Precision Arms LLC rifle shooting prototype solid 400gr Berger bullets.

Mitchell built this rifle himself using a McMillan A5 Super Mag stock, Rock Creek barrel,

 Nightforce ATACR MOA scope, Phoenix Precision Bipod, and a Lethal Precision Arms

 muzzle brake. Lawton  Action. Lethal Precision  his own  gunsmith  shop,  will make

these target rifles for anyone into target shooting and long range hunting..


Remarkably, Mitchell nailed first- and second- shot hits at the 2477-yard target,

a full 1.4 miles away. It is windy out there, makes shooting hard with a time limit.

The prototype 400 grain Berger Bullets solid performed great, (G7 BC of 0.56 at 3000 fps).






Here is  585 HE in an Enfield, in a Choate Heavy  Varmint Stock. These are super strong.

The  butts of these can easily be weighted.  Couple guys doing them.......  Ed










Offline hubel585

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Re: 12ga,10ga,8ga,4ga FH; 585HE/700HE; Big Bores---
« Reply #91 on: October 02, 2016, 04:19:06 AM »
Here is a picture of the 12ga FH brass case that Nathan

Vale had Bertrams make. Next to short plastic case.




Here is a picture of our 585BB headstamp. Perfect lettering

for our case as it came from production line,.




 I like Hogue stocks,  but they aren't made for singleshots.

We use singleshots for our 12ga FH and  585HE.

Here is picture of a NEF we set up for 24ga FH and we adapted

a Hogue  1300 Winchester Hogue to it. Looks a lot better, and

handles recoil easier than factory, Butt hollow, easy to add weight,





Here is picture of  585 case in the Lawton bolt, and the wildcat

375s and others made from our cases, work in bolt also. Ed




Offline hubel585

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Re: 12ga,10ga,8ga,4ga FH; 585HE/700HE; Big Bores---
« Reply #92 on: October 02, 2016, 04:30:52 AM »
The 12ga FH cases can be got from Bertram. Ed

Offline hubel585

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Re: 12ga,10ga,8ga,4ga FH; 585HE/700HE; Big Bores---
« Reply #93 on: January 07, 2017, 02:29:14 PM »
Our friend Brian from the far north went to Africa with his 24ga FH he did in
a NEF break action and got 3 nice buffs with it. Good job.


Our 585HE, 700HE and the great 12ga FH are now in the new COTW book
published  in Oct, now out for sale,




We now have our target 375 HE cartridge, made  by necking down our 585 HE.
The other couldn't make enough 375s, so we started our own. It has different
shoulder taper, length, neck length, improved over the other one...Got a bunch
guys doing it, most into the 2 mile shooting venues, We're making cases,
testing, reamer prints at reamer guys, we are getting guys going. King of 2 mile
shoot last year really got the interest booming for  375 necked from our case,

Here's how we size and seat 375 HE, a simple die, a 1" die, no huge dies needed
A die we can make with resize reamer from reamer guy, a regular die body,then
 pass on to the next guy, one reamer can make whole bunch of dies for folks.

I do primer work separate, not in the press.That way I can clean pocket, check
flash hole,....... SO First with lock ring set, I size cases.

When coming back out of dies with case, we notice the case still well centered,
 held straight, when it is down as far as the length of the 375 HE neck... IE
the sides and shoulder corner still supported tight.  About  .35" down.

So we put washer or another lock ring on, same thickness as neck length,
below original lock ring, screw down tight tight in press,

Dies had a 5/8 x 24 thread in top, had powder fill bushing and other stuff  same thread,
 reamed out from bottom to set bullet height, with ram, case,and bullet up,

After priming, loading in the powder charge, we  carefully start(boat tail makes it easy)
 bullet in case by hand, slide up in die, into holder, raise ram to to top, bullet seated
 perfect. Die can have different thread in top as long as big enough to hold seating
bushing of some kind , that can be made from many items.

These target bullets held in by strong neck tension, no crimping needed, and notice
bullet point will get no marks or dents, fast, easy, no 380-500 buck special  dies.
Bushing centering bullet on ogive is very accurate.

OVER 900 375HE  cases piled behind presses getting done. About 600 on another
 bench nearly ready. Small batches in shelves.And we will do more.

All 375 info, prints, specs, pictures, load data, etc, is public domain, worldwide,
for any target, hunting, etc, use..Ed



Offline hubel585

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Re: 12ga,10ga,8ga,4ga FH; 585HE/700HE; Big Bores---
« Reply #94 on: February 01, 2017, 06:40:54 AM »
Here is picture of  one of 3 buffs our guy from Canada got in

Africa with  our 24ga FH he did on a NEF,  in 2nd picture








Here is the neck die setup, with insert stems/plugs for the top that

are set in .020" steps to make our 375 HEs shown behind

from our 585HE cases. 900 cases behind and 600  on

another bench, mostly done, and 600 started elsewhere,

We  also made a hydraulic form die, 375 HE test gun, starting with

lighter bullets, for example got 340 gr to 3700,

Will test up to 400gr We will find top speeds and powders needed

to get that, and have info where to get powders.  Reamer prints are

at reamer guys, all prints and info is public domain... Ed


Offline hubel585

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Re: 12ga,10ga,8ga,4ga FH; 585HE/700HE; Big Bores---
« Reply #95 on: March 12, 2017, 01:28:50 AM »
Picture of fellows at Vestals Gunsmithing test firing  585 HE

they built for a guy. They got 750 gr to almost 2800 from

ultra short barrel, not a full load . A regular barrel  would be

 over  2900,  14000 ft lbs with full load..





Picture of our 375 HE cases, with little 378 WEA on left.

Middle case is with 330 gr, right case is  400gr bullet.




Here is picture of out 375HE testgun, in heavy t-hole stock.

So far 340 gr to 3700 and 360gr 3600.




Next 416 HE target case, these run through the hydro-die,

test gun done,will complete testing soon, to confirm specs.

When specs set, info will be sent to reamer guys

Soon will have  408 HE with specs set up also, for guys,

Smaller case 416s and 408s can be reamed out for

our  bigger case .Ed



Offline hubel585

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Re: 12ga,10ga,8ga,4ga FH; 585HE/700HE; Big Bores---
« Reply #96 on: April 25, 2017, 04:29:49 PM »
Here is picture of a brake on 12ga FH with real hot loaded
hollowbase lead slug, brake needed more clearance
for  the expanding slug.




Here is the  before and after of  375 HE cases,   
 2 on left necked,  2 on right formed in hydro die after necking..



Here is pic of 416 HSM second from left we are experimenting
with, going to see if we can make the ultimate 416 ELR case.
Can be 3.60" to 4.00" long, a long one pictured.
Holds over  280 gr ball powder under bullet. In the picture,
1st case is 416 HE, 2nd 416 HSM, 3rd 375 HE, 4th 378 WEA.

416 HSM will get 400gr to 4100 plus without needing BMG action,
470 gr 3800 plus , it may be the ultimate target, singleshot 416..
Case will work in fat bolt actions, with heavy enough barrel
to have good, milder, barrel harmonics and srtill  be under 50 lbs.
A lot of the 2 mile type shoots are adopting 50lb limit.



Here is picture of  the 416 HSM fireformed once,
next to bmg case we make it from and as we
improve wildcatting process next few weeks
some specs may make small changes, now from
base to shoulder is 3.45", case 3.97" long. Ed..





Manson has 416 HE and 408 HE prints, as well as 375 HE
He can also make you a resize die reamer from that info.
We got 700 cases in 416 and one more pass if 408s wanted, ,
Going to do lot more cases for these 2 sizes also,
Questions, PM or email. ph 989-644-5228..

Here are final specs for 416 HE.
Length 3.32",  belt diameter  ,655",  base dia  .635" ,
length base to to shoulder 2.860" , 30 deg shoulder.Ed