CNC Gunsmithing Forum

AR Style Firearms & Projects => AR15 Discussions => Topic started by: jwh02017 on March 07, 2010, 09:16:08 AM

Title: HK416 Clone
Post by: jwh02017 on March 07, 2010, 09:16:08 AM
I just finished a HK416 clone.  Visit the bottom of this link for more pics... http://www.cncguns.com/projects/ar15lower.html (http://www.cncguns.com/projects/ar15lower.html)

Visit this link for the group buy of these... http://www.cncguns.com/forum/index.php?topic=1973.0 (http://www.cncguns.com/forum/index.php?topic=1973.0)

(http://www.cncguns.com/images/HK416%20Clone_0240.jpg)

(http://www.cncguns.com/images/HK416%20Clone_0237.jpg)
Title: Re: HK416 Clone
Post by: FUBob on March 07, 2010, 11:54:03 AM
nice!!!  :D
Title: Re: HK416 Clone
Post by: guneng on March 07, 2010, 12:59:23 PM
Very Nice Work!
Title: Re: HK416 Clone
Post by: Mikanator on March 08, 2010, 08:10:00 AM
Wait, this is a COPY!? Looks legit to me. Great work with the various labels, I hope that`s not considered copyright infringement. :-\
Title: Re: HK416 Clone
Post by: TehVice on March 08, 2010, 09:34:27 AM
Wait, this is a COPY!? Looks legit to me. Great work with the various labels, I hope that`s not considered copyright infringement. :-\

All these "trademark" and "copyright" issues people are always so concerned about only really apply if you're copying a product and selling it on the commercial market.

The point of the law isn't to say "you can't have something with XXX on it unless that company says so", it's to keep people from falsely using an entity's name/reputation to market/sell their own products.

Title: Re: HK416 Clone
Post by: goober on March 08, 2010, 10:16:49 AM
Wait, this is a COPY!? Looks legit to me. Great work with the various labels, I hope that`s not considered copyright infringement. :-\

All these "trademark" and "copyright" issues people are always so concerned about only really apply if you're copying a product and selling it on the commercial market.

The point of the law isn't to say "you can't have something with XXX on it unless that company says so", it's to keep people from falsely using an entity's name/reputation to market/sell their own products.


yup. how many times have we been over this now?  ::)
Title: Re: HK416 Clone
Post by: jwh02017 on March 08, 2010, 02:18:38 PM
Quote
Great work with the various labels, I hope that`s not considered copyright infringement.
This rifle isn't for sale just like I haven't ever sold any of the firearms I've made for myself.  I would never sell any products with another company's logo on it. :)

Justin
Title: Re: HK416 Clone
Post by: goober on March 08, 2010, 02:34:04 PM
Quote
Great work with the various labels, I hope that`s not considered copyright infringement.
This rifle isn't for sale just like I haven't ever sold any of the firearms I've made for myself.  I would never sell any products with another company's logo on it. :)

Justin
btw nice work as usual, Justin, and great to see you!  :D
Title: Re: HK416 Clone
Post by: Mikanator on March 09, 2010, 08:58:40 AM
Wait, this is a COPY!? Looks legit to me. Great work with the various labels, I hope that`s not considered copyright infringement. :-\

All these "trademark" and "copyright" issues people are always so concerned about only really apply if you're copying a product and selling it on the commercial market.

The point of the law isn't to say "you can't have something with XXX on it unless that company says so", it's to keep people from falsely using an entity's name/reputation to market/sell their own products.




OK, thanks for clearing that up.  On another note, is that an actual 416 fore grip and pistol grip?
Title: Re: HK416 Clone
Post by: fsted2a on March 09, 2010, 11:35:34 AM
As always,
AWESOME!!!
Title: Re: HK416 Clone
Post by: jwh02017 on March 09, 2010, 03:43:56 PM
Quote
On another note, is that an actual 416 fore grip and pistol grip?
HK vertical grip.
Title: Re: HK416 Clone
Post by: fsted2a on March 15, 2010, 12:28:08 PM
Just out of curiosity; what kind of gas system do you have on it? Is it similar to H-K?
Title: Re: HK416 Clone
Post by: HKNC on March 15, 2010, 02:54:49 PM
Just out of curiosity; what kind of gas system do you have on it? Is it similar to H-K?

That is a factory HK 14.5 upper, so gas system is HK
Title: Re: HK416 Clone
Post by: LimeE on March 16, 2010, 01:24:41 AM
Very very nice work Justin, lets hope the Umarex clones out this year look half as good  ;D
Title: Re: HK416 Clone
Post by: AirPenguin on March 22, 2010, 06:32:39 PM
How did you manage to get the trademarks on? Are they engraved?
Title: Re: HK416 Clone
Post by: jwh02017 on March 23, 2010, 06:40:26 AM
The pictograms are mechanically engraved and the other markings are laser engraved.
Title: Re: HK416 Clone
Post by: HKNC on March 23, 2010, 09:21:16 AM
Guys and gals, I am hosting a group buy for Justin's 416 clone lower on the HKPro.com forum.

For details please visit:


http://hkpro.com/forum/showthread.php?121655-WTS-416-Clone-10-Solid-Billet-Lowers-GROUP-BUY


If you are interested, but don't want to join that board, feel free to PM me here.  PM's are easiest for me to keep track of everything vs open posts.

Thanks   
 
 
 
Title: Re: HK416 Clone
Post by: j_blankenship on March 24, 2010, 06:23:06 PM
$250 is a bit steep. How about the CAD file for sale?
Title: Re: HK416 Clone
Post by: gmoney on April 02, 2010, 12:06:19 PM
Is this an exact HK clone?  I mean are the specs the same?  Obviously the portion we have to finish might not be, but?
Title: Re: HK416 Clone
Post by: jwh02017 on April 05, 2010, 06:49:39 AM
Is this an exact HK clone?  I mean are the specs the same?  Obviously the portion we have to finish might not be, but?
As exact as I could make it. :)
Title: Re: HK416 Clone
Post by: jwh02017 on April 05, 2010, 06:50:07 AM
$250 is a bit steep. How about the CAD file for sale?
I might release the CAD file at a later date.
Title: Re: HK416 Clone
Post by: motoguy on April 08, 2010, 08:01:18 PM
I'm don't know much about the HK, but it looks a lot like an AR.  What's the difference between the HK and the AR?  Aside from the engraving, it looks like an AR lower to my (untrained) eye.
Title: Re: HK416 Clone
Post by: j_blankenship on April 09, 2010, 06:14:01 PM
$250 is a bit steep. How about the CAD file for sale?
I might release the CAD file at a later date.

With the appropriate limited release license agreement. I'd be cool with a restriced solely for personal use license with no distribution clause.
Title: Re: HK416 Clone
Post by: imipenem on April 17, 2010, 01:34:25 PM
Justin,

Awesome work.  Who does the laser engraving for you?  Is it done before or after anodize?

Thanks
Title: Re: HK416 Clone
Post by: FUBob on April 17, 2010, 02:27:09 PM
pretty sure justin does his own laser engraving and it would be done after anodizing - http://www.cncguns.com/forum/index.php?topic=200.0

Title: Re: HK416 Clone
Post by: user5412 on April 21, 2010, 09:04:08 PM
What kind of pistol grip is on there?
Title: Re: HK416 Clone
Post by: jwh02017 on April 26, 2010, 08:07:16 AM
What kind of pistol grip is on there?
It's a HK style grip that I got off gunbroker a while back.


Quote
I'm don't know much about the HK, but it looks a lot like an AR.  What's the difference between the HK and the AR?  Aside from the engraving, it looks like an AR lower to my (untrained) eye.
The HK is basically an AR.  The HK has a flatter mag well (mean the angle is not as steep).  The HK lower also has an extra hole in the lower on the buffer tower that I assume is for holding the buffer retainer in place.  The other differences are minor and only cosmetic. 

Quote
Awesome work.  Who does the laser engraving for you?  Is it done before or after anodize?
I laser engrave my parts at work.  I always laser engrave after anodizing.
Title: Re: HK416 Clone
Post by: imipenem on April 28, 2010, 11:32:50 AM
Justin,

I've been tasked with finding a laser engraver for our shop.  What make/model is yours?

Thanks
Title: Re: HK416 Clone
Post by: jwh02017 on April 28, 2010, 01:55:14 PM
It's an RMI laser.  We paid right at $40,000 for the laser.  I don't have access to the model right now.

Justin
Title: Re: HK416 Clone
Post by: Agent Bauer on April 28, 2010, 07:29:57 PM
I'm gonna guess that the hardest part of this build was dropping the +/- 3 grand on the factory upper ;)  What an awesome project.  I found your site a few months ago and I love the AR-45, especially with the suppressor you made.  I came back to the site a few days ago and saw the 416 clone and I got wicked jealous.  I love how you nailed every detail, right down to the "Read Operators Manual Before Use."  IA lot of people complain about the "fad" of gas piston ARs, but I love them, and the 416 is probably my favorite.  The Germans make awesome stuff.
Title: Re: HK416 Clone
Post by: goober on April 28, 2010, 07:47:58 PM
...The Germans make awesome stuff.

Is that Agent Bauer talking or is it really Vince (http://www.entertonement.com/clips/qhkvcsxfmz--Made-in-GermanyShamWOW-Vince-Offer-Infomercials-Infomercials-)?  :o ;D
Title: Re: HK416 Clone
Post by: The Extractor on July 10, 2010, 10:55:19 PM
where might someone get the trigger guard ? Is that an hk copied part /or ?It is the first TG I have seen that isnt a turd...
Title: Re: HK416 Clone
Post by: jwh02017 on August 04, 2010, 09:59:08 AM
The new group buy thread is located here... http://www.cncguns.com/forum/index.php?topic=1973.0 (http://www.cncguns.com/forum/index.php?topic=1973.0)

Thanks,
Justin
Title: Re: HK416 Clone
Post by: peabody on September 03, 2010, 05:19:43 PM
howdy,,  do you sell complete AR15 slickside lowers ? wanting to build a vietnam retro.

Title: Re: HK416 Clone
Post by: jwh02017 on September 03, 2010, 05:50:31 PM
howdy,,  do you sell complete AR15 slickside lowers ? wanting to build a vietnam retro.


Sorry, no I don't.

Justin
Title: Re: HK416 Clone
Post by: Jim_in_MN on November 10, 2010, 05:58:33 PM
Justin,

In looking to source some parts for my lower would you mind sharing what you used to complete your clone?

Thanks,

Jim
Title: Re: HK416 Clone
Post by: jwh02017 on November 10, 2010, 08:19:05 PM
I used a standard AR15 lower parts kit.  I picked up the complete upper assemble a while back.  In order to complete a HK clone you really just have to keep an eye out for the parts.... assuming you want it to look as genuine as possible. 

Justin
Title: Re: HK416 Clone
Post by: central fl cracker on January 20, 2012, 10:30:16 PM
I used a standard AR15 lower parts kit.  I picked up the complete upper assemble a while back.  In order to complete a HK clone you really just have to keep an eye out for the parts.... assuming you want it to look as genuine as possible. 

Justin
What kind of CNC will do this type of milling and how much are they? Out of curiosity why can't you supply some of the AR 15 Gun Makers. I am almost possible the majority of your AR 15 gun makers do not make there own lower receivers and buy from an outside source. It is also my understanding that there is only handful of manufactures that build these lowers which seems odd. I live 8 miles from Spikes Tactical and I know for sure they dont make their own and they are a big player.

Title: Re: HK416 Clone
Post by: jwh02017 on January 21, 2012, 12:23:13 PM
I use a vertical machining center that cost nearly $100k new.  For really high production, most companies use horizontal machining centers which start at around $250k.... most being around $500k.  I do sell the 11% HK416 cloned lowers.  Contact me if you are interested.... justin@cncguns.com 

Customer service takes a whole lot of time so most big manufacturing companies don't like dealing with the little guys who only want to buy a handful of lowers.  The big manufacturers like concentrating on one thing and that is manufacturing... it's the only way to keep production cost down.  It's the same reason why you can't walk into a Ford or Chevrolet production plant and ask to buy a car.... after all, it would be cheaper than having to go to a dealership right?  However if you want to buy 20,000 cars then I'm sure they will talk to you.  I've noticed most dealers mark stuff up 100% to cover all the customer service and other sales details.  This is needed because it can sometimes take more time talking to the customer than what it took to produce the actual product. 

I hope this helps.

Thanks,
Justin

Quote
Justin
What kind of CNC will do this type of milling and how much are they? Out of curiosity why can't you supply some of the AR 15 Gun Makers. I am almost possible the majority of your AR 15 gun makers do not make there own lower receivers and buy from an outside source. It is also my understanding that there is only handful of manufactures that build these lowers which seems odd. I live 8 miles from Spikes Tactical and I know for sure they dont make their own and they are a big player.
Title: Re: HK416 Clone
Post by: foxcolt13 on February 23, 2013, 07:10:38 PM
  Justin, will the new batch of HK416 clone 80% lowers  accept standard M4/AR15 mags  like the GENII PMAGS?
Title: Re: HK416 Clone
Post by: jwh02017 on February 24, 2013, 07:46:18 PM
They will be exactly like real HK416 lowers. 
  Justin, will the new batch of HK416 clone 80% lowers  accept standard M4/AR15 mags  like the GENII PMAGS?
Title: Re: HK416 Clone
Post by: Ender864 on March 30, 2013, 08:13:37 PM
Do you have any room left for one more order? Highly interested
Title: Re: HK416 Clone
Post by: jwh02017 on March 31, 2013, 07:18:39 AM
Do you have any room left for one more order? Highly interested
Yes, shoot me an email.... justin@cncguns.com
Title: Re: HK416 Clone
Post by: Keith on June 08, 2014, 02:09:37 PM
Justin, I've completed the drilling and milling of your 11%er and I've got a couple of questions about finishing.  What did you do to get the anodizing to turn out looking like an HK finish?  Did you bead blast the machining marks off and do a bright dip before hard anodizing?  Was there any unique specifications/techniques to get the "HK black" color to match your HK factory upper or is it the standard Type III process? 

And, I know you've told me before, but I can't remember what you said to use for white and red paint sticks to fill the pictographs with?  I'll be using an HK MR556a1 upper to complete my build, and I'm really hoping mine turns out as well as yours did!
Thanks in advance.
Title: Re: HK416 Clone
Post by: jwh02017 on June 11, 2014, 12:45:23 PM
Justin, I've completed the drilling and milling of your 11%er and I've got a couple of questions about finishing.  What did you do to get the anodizing to turn out looking like an HK finish?  Did you bead blast the machining marks off and do a bright dip before hard anodizing?  Was there any unique specifications/techniques to get the "HK black" color to match your HK factory upper or is it the standard Type III process? 

And, I know you've told me before, but I can't remember what you said to use for white and red paint sticks to fill the pictographs with?  I'll be using an HK MR556a1 upper to complete my build, and I'm really hoping mine turns out as well as yours did!
Thanks in advance.

Glad to hear you are finishing your lower.  This link should answer some of your questions.... http://www.cncguns.com/hk416email.html

Yes, I bead blasted the lower and used bright dip during the anodizing process.  The bright dip process just gives the lower a slight sheen instead of a dull black.  No special "HK Black" just basic hard black anodizing.  I think US Anodizing should be able to anodize the lower for you.  I describe the white and red paint in the link above. 

Good luck!!
Title: Re: HK416 Clone
Post by: Keith on July 25, 2015, 08:43:23 AM
Hi Justin,  I wanted to let you know that I finished my HK416 project last winter and have only just gotten around to taking a couple pics.
Thanks for all your help with this. I'm putting an EOTech 512 on it, but left it off for the pics I took to mimic yours.

You and your site have been great resources for getting this done!
Title: Re: HK416 Clone
Post by: jwh02017 on July 30, 2015, 12:25:01 PM
Hi Justin,  I wanted to let you know that I finished my HK416 project last winter and have only just gotten around to taking a couple pics.
Thanks for all your help with this. I'm putting an EOTech 512 on it, but left it off for the pics I took to mimic yours.

You and your site have been great resources for getting this done!
It looks great!!!  VERY NICE.